Zeitgeist Australia Forum

Zeitgeist Australia Forum » Recent Posts http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Zeitgeist Australia Forum » Recent Posts en Sun, 05 Feb 2012 00:00:06 +0000 David Zwolski on "FORUM TO BE ARCHIVED" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/forum-to-be-archived#post-3617 Mon, 12 Dec 2011 07:12:23 +0000 David Zwolski 3617@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ This forum will be archived permanently as of Jan 2012. Please backup any data that you wish to keep, as i cant promisse that this forum will be permanently archived on this site. Zeitgeistaustralia.org will not provide anymore a forum service. a new global forum service might be established by the TZM Dev Team in the future. Joshua on "Magnetic Island / Townsville area" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/magnetic-island-townsville-area/page/2#post-3615 Sun, 04 Dec 2011 01:25:21 +0000 Joshua 3615@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ well that was a bust, 1. the library was closed, 2. nobody turned up. I'm going to leave my number in the hopes that people are interested, but im calling this website a bust, at least as far as the townsville chapter is concerned Ph; 0747404836 dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/25#post-3614 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 00:31:41 +0000 dowell 3614@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ R. Swipe? The mind of the inventor never ceases to amaze me. The Eden Ck project is supported by people not in the habit of giving up, the purpose of the Eden Ck project is help those wishing to form a community for people on low incomes What is your purpose of your investment? R. Swipe on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/25#post-3613 Thu, 01 Dec 2011 20:29:38 +0000 R. Swipe 3613@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Dowell, can you tell us what the hell is going on? I thought this developement was all the go, I was thinking of investing but it has all come to a screeching halt. Sounds like faeces has hit the fan!!! Be well brother. dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/25#post-3611 Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:40:22 +0000 dowell 3611@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Red tape spurs 'revolution' Megan Kinninment | 26th November 2011 Tags development, free state of australia, kyogle council, land, property Steven Biedrowski and Nicole Stokes are shown their plots of land by property developer jonathan of the Eden Creek Community Project, who has seceded from Australia. UNHAPPY about his development application for a 22-share multiple occupancy being knocked back by the local council, a Kyogle man has announced he is leaving the shire and taking his land with him. The man, who has changed his name to jonathan (in lower case), says he has seceded from the shire, indeed from Australia, and has applied for citizenship of a new sovereign state which calls itself the Free State of Australia (FSA) and claims to be recognised under international law as a religious state. The FSA was created in August and so far boasts around 100 "citizens". Mr jonathan said his 80ha Eden Creek property would now become a province within this new sovereign state, and would no longer be subject to the "burdensome" planning rules and regulations of Kyogle Council or NSW. The new state will not change its currency or postage from Australia's, but citizens will shortly be issued with new driving licences, Mr jonathan said. There will be no king or president, rather a group of elders will rule the new state, with citizens soon to decide upon the constitution. The 65-year-old former Uniting Church minister, turned property developer, turned anarchist, said his secession move was a "non-violent revolution". "I decided to cut through the burdensome red tape of council and we will make up our own responsible and reasonable laws," Mr jonathan said. Mr jonathan wants to build 22 dwellings on his Eden Creek property as part of a multiple occupancy, now known as rural land sharing. However the DA was knocked back by Kyogle Council due to old-growth forest and fire management issues. Mr jonathan then appealed to the NSW Land and Environment Court, but mid-proceedings decided to "withdraw his consent" from Australia's laws, leaving the council to work out how to recoup its costs. The council said it would be applying to the court to dismiss the case and award damages in its favour, while Mr jonathon has issued his own order for the council to attend the court of the FSA in March. Kyogle Mayor Ross Brown said he did not recognise the new sovereign state jonathon was now a "citizen" of and said the issue had cost the council in the vicinity of $100,000 in consultancy and legal costs. "Of course we do not recognise his secession," Cr Brown said. If Mr jonathan moves forward with plans to develop and build on the property, the council will act, Cr Brown said. "He does not have developmental approval and he'll be treated like any other resident of Kyogle if he attempts to develop without approval," he said. After declaring himself a citizen of the FSA three weeks ago, Mr jonathan is forging ahead with his Eden Creek development plans, advertising shares in the MO from $55,000 for an acre and a quarter, with four new residents already living in caravans on the property. Mr jonathan said he had "a lot of interest" in the new sovereign state. dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/25#post-3610 Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:38:47 +0000 dowell 3610@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ A very special HI my dear friend. This is a group email to around 150 on my Contact List about what is happening here on the sacred ground of the Eden Creek Community (ECC) project. I attended an exceptionally encouraging Solutions Seminar on the weekend on the Gold Coast. This was offered by an amazingly brave man and his wife – the man has been exercising his human and lawful rights in the legal system for 12 years and has compiled a 300 pages ‘how to’ manual with actual letters, forms, notices, writs, affidavits, applications, etc – the nuts and bolts of the corporate/legal system and he has prevailed by acting with honour, knowledgeable standing in courts and with corporations and his clear right of place under the creator/divine power of all that is. The ECC project is proceeding on the sacred ground of the property at 1411 Afterlee Rd Eden Creek NSW 2474 within the Free State of Australia (FSA). To kick start this, we are inviting you to discussions this Saturday at the property from 2 until 4 pm, weather permitting, with a short recess at 3.45 and an early evening party to follow until around 9 pm. There is a site office caravan with air conditioning for refuge from the heat or heavy rain but it can only shelter limited numbers – perhaps the most vulnerable to adverse elements. Please ring in on Saturday morning if you are coming so we can arrange furniture and refreshments for you. Please bring your own plates, crockery, drink containers and party food and drink if you plan to stay on into the early evening. Please bring your own seating too. This is the first gathering in the Free State here. It is intended to whet your appetite for attending one of the Solutions Seminars as soon as another is conveniently available for you. It is affordable and will save a lot of your monies from supporting the corporate/legal system. Most of you have been sent the mud map to assist in getting you here. If not received or found please send your email request or phone in and I will provide directions – 0266 333 223 or 0432 021 610 (patchy coverage). This is a locked gate sacred site and there is a rudimentary creek crossing (a moat!!) at the entrance, so only invited guests can get in. If you are late in arriving, please ring as you leave Kyogle, where there is reliable mobile phone coverage and you will be met at the locked gate 20 minutes later. Alternatively you can climb through or over the railing fence, walk across the moat and walk another 400 metres to the encampment. There is an attachment about this project with a few unfortunate spins by the press but overall OK. Please network this invitation to all whom you think might be interested – whether they can come on Saturday or not. Let us saturate the human consciousness that there is an honourable and courageous way forward in these challenging days. With thanks and integrity. jonathan Joshua on "Magnetic Island / Townsville area" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/magnetic-island-townsville-area/page/2#post-3609 Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:02:39 +0000 Joshua 3609@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ I shall be there. wearing black and red, sorry I don't have any Zeitgeist t-shirts <img src="http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/my-plugins/bb-smilies/default/smile.png" title=":)" class="bb_smilies" /> teenage_idol on "Magnetic Island / Townsville area" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/magnetic-island-townsville-area/page/2#post-3604 Mon, 28 Nov 2011 06:46:12 +0000 teenage_idol 3604@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Just checking to see if the meeting is going ahead on Sunday Dec 4th, 10.30 am at the Aitkenvale library. The plan was made a while ago. Anyone coming? dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/25#post-3602 Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:44:28 +0000 dowell 3602@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ More on the Eden Ck project, jonathan has sent me this to pass on. He has not included the attachments, but as soon as they come in I will pass them on. Cheers. Hi friends, now of a citizen of the Free State of Australia (FSA) as well as a loyal citizen of the Commonwealth of Australia as intended by the original, unaltered Constitution adopted at Federation in 1901. Many of us have been uneasy about the way we are being governed and being managed by corporations, both local, national and multinational. I resisted the lunatic fringe of conspiracy theories for years but after being denied justice and my property rights and being forced into big debts by the local council in step with the NSW Land and Environment Court, I have come to the realization that my human rights and lawful freedoms have been steadily eroded over the last few years in particular – though there are colleagues who write that this has been happening steadily and cunningly for a century here in Australia. I have written briefly about the FSA by way of a Notice to be placed at the front of this sovereign property – see attachment. There are 7 other attachments comprising the Info Pak. Please feel free to send this information on to your networks so that the word gets out that there is a place of freedom from the legal, statutory, regulatory, contract, corporate system which is affecting most Australians these difficult days. I recently heard and am reading materials about the Zero Point Field (Lynne McTaggart – “The Field”). I accept the fact that everything that is happening to me/us is in The Field because I/we are participants in all that is occurring. I accept that the legal, corporate system is the reality for most of us today and I accept that an alternative reality is possible too. That is why I am a citizen of FSA. Thanks for your support and interest. All the best to you in all your plans. With integrity. jonathan dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/25#post-3601 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:41:26 +0000 dowell 3601@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Hi warren, Jonathan E-mail Address(es): <a href="mailto:jonathan4452@bigpond.com">jonathan4452@bigpond.com</a> dowell wildwabbit on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/25#post-3600 Sat, 19 Nov 2011 12:31:54 +0000 wildwabbit 3600@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ jonathan This information is priceless, I can't thank you enough for sharing this. I have been aware of the corporatisation of persons through capitalization and how this allows us to be tried in the legal system under corporate law. My drivers license came up for renewal not long ago, and I asked if they could print my name in lower case letters, I was planning to try and un-corpratise myself document by document, but it seems that no government system or corporate computer system is equipped to let you be a person, the lady at the transport dept. didn't know what to make of me as I was as insistent as possible without being rude, I think the supervisor thought I'd escaped from the nut house. I will give you a PM in the next few weeks, I will be traveling through your way over the x-mas period, If time permits I would love to catch up for drink or two. All the best with your endeavors, warren dowell on "Watched the documentaries, what next..?" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/watched-the-documentaries-what-next#post-3599 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:59:53 +0000 dowell 3599@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Watched this today, How to start your own revolution through non-violent strategies by Gene Sharp. He offers 198 ways to do this and his work has been used successfully in numerous parts of the world in recent years including Bosnia, Venezuela, Ireland, Burma and he names another 30 or so countries. His flagship book is called From Dictatorship to Democracy. wellworth checking this out. dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/25#post-3598 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:51:05 +0000 dowell 3598@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ 17th/11/2010 This is a group email to a limited number of supportive friends in My Contacts list. Thanks to all who have been offering useful comments and information. As you now know, I have seceded from the illegitimate Commonwealth of Australia and the illegitimate State of New South Wales because the Constitutions of these and all other States and Territories here have been amended by elected politicians without our mandate to do this. The result is that all Australians have had their natural human rights usurped and now we are ‘governed’ by corporations outside the lawfulness of the original Constitution and the protections of the Queen of Great Britain and Ireland and her successors in perpetuity. I recently registered my citizenship in the Free State of Australia, which is acting as a circuit breaker under section 116 (religious freedoms) of the original Constitution between the lawful Commonwealth of Australia Parliament as set up by the original unchanged Constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia in 1900 and the illegitimate Australian Government which has seen politicians writing their own illegitimate Australian Constitution and State Constitutions over the years since soon after Federation in 1901. A direct consequence of this is that I can now no longer rely on the rule of law in dealing with the local council (not recognised in the Constitution), the State of NSW and its departments and courts and the current Australian Government and, in matters outside human rights issues, the High Court of Australia. Queen Elizabeth 2nd doesn’t appear to know that she has been ousted by the pollies (politicians) for several decades and there is no final lawful appeal available by any loyal citizen to her anymore. I am researching more on what I have just written and will keep you informed of developments as they arise. I watched an SBS program last night on How to start your own revolution through non-violent strategies by Gene Sharp. He offers 198 ways to do this and his work has been used successfully in numerous parts of the world in recent years including Bosnia, Venezuela, Ireland, Burma and he names another 30 or so countries. His flagship book is called From Dictatorship to Democracy and I will be studying this soon in preparation for my lawful disobedience (an oxymoron for the political morons to be rehabilitated). The Gold Coast workshop is going ahead and I have just registered for it. Might see some of you living in this region there. Onward the peaceful warrior (another oxymoron). jonathan dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/25#post-3597 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:37:05 +0000 dowell 3597@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ As attachment. Try to say the following before Councils lawyer begins his/her presentation of their case… “Registrar, if it pleases the court, I would like to address the court on the following” If you are denied then wait until you are called… but if allowed to continue go on saying the following… “I bring to the courts attention - “I object to council’s jurisdiction” The judge (CORAM) may ask, on what grounds… you say… “I am a Citizen of the FREE STATE OF AUSTRALIA, I am under the jurisdiction of the FREE STATE and not of New South Wales” The judge may comment, however at no time are you to debate the judge or the lawyer but go on saying… Sir, I DO NOT CONSENT TO BE PARTY TO THESE PROCEEDINGS, I am a citizen of the FREE STATE OF AUSTRALIA, I have seceded from the State of New South Wales and am no longer subjected to the laws of New South Wales, this court has NO JURISDICTION. The matter raised by council will go before the Common Law Court of the FREE STATE in March 2012. The court and council will be duly notified of the hearing date. The judge may comment and reject your claim, stand your ground and repeat… Sir, I DO NOT CONSENT TO BE PARTY TO THESE PROCEEDINGS, I am a citizen of the FREE STATE OF AUSTRALIA, I have seceded from the State of New South Wales and am no longer subjected to the laws of New South Wales, this court has NO JURISDICTION. then say… Sir, with all respect to this court, I now excuse myself from further involvement, thank you. dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/25#post-3596 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:34:00 +0000 dowell 3596@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ FREE STATE OF AUSTRALIA Religious State INTERIM PARLIAMENT HOUSE 65 HENRY STREET WERRIS CREEK 2341 AUSTRALIA 2 November 2011 Our Ref: 00301/2011 Shoalhaven City Council City Administration Centre 42 Bridge Street NOWRA NSW 2541 AUSTRALIA Subject: Robert Wayne Reid, 161 Inglewood Cres, TOMERONG 2540, AUSTRALIA. Attention: The Mayor and Councillors Dear Sirs and Madams, We write to inform that the above named Robert Wayne Reid and his family are citizens of the FREE STATE OF AUSTRALIA (FSA), a Religious State within the foreshores and territories of the Commonwealth of Australia, and including all areas lawfully occupied by the Commonwealth of Australia. The FREE STATE OF AUSTRALIA was founded on Christian philosophy and ideals within that scribed under the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 (UK) (63 & 64 Victoria) (Ch 12), and is a recognised State under International Law. In that regard, Council’s proceeding before the Land & Environment Court of New South Wales is of no consequence, as the Court is in no position to make orders against a citizen of another State, therefore a purported order is not enforceable. Mr Reid advised the said Court of his secession from the State of New South Wales, and of his citizenship with the FREE STATE OF AUSTRALIA, that rendering no jurisdiction by the State of New South Wales. Therefore, Council and other State Entity are not permitted entry onto his estate, to do so would constitute a trespass liable to prosecution. The Common Law Court Registry will serve the appropriate documents that Council appear before a Common Law Court Hearing in March 2012. Council may file for a resolution of claim. Moreover, Council should not consider further proceedings or the pursuit of enforcement orders made unlawfully against a citizen of the FSA. To do so may exasperate a situation beyond Council’s control that could draw Council into a law suit exceeding any envisaged gain. We trust that Council is now aware of the FREE STATE OF AUSTRALIA, and would respect the State and its citizens no different to that of the People within its Shire. dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/24#post-3595 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:33:12 +0000 dowell 3595@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ 7th/11/2011 Hi all still interested. I’ve gone and done it. At the telephone Callover with the court and council’s solicitor I made the declaration above and hung up the phone in the midst of the registrar shouting that I could not do that. I have drawn my lawful line in the sand to separate the legal (but unlawful) process which is denying my human rights here in this state of NSW and here in this local council area of Kyogle. This act of withdrawing consent from a process which I began 11 months ago in this court and 2 years ago with this council, has taken a paradigm shift. The matter is now listed for a Common Law Court hearing in March 2012, held within the Free State of Australia by citizens of that Free State, in which I have just registered as a citizen. It is of necessity that I have done this since there was no foreseeable justice or equitable outcome available from the legal process in which I had ignorantly engaged. There was justice there – as many as 16 years ago in the Land and Environment Court and the Supreme Court of NSW and as few as 7 years ago when I won my applications to these courts against Lismore City Council on a similar project as this one. Now I have joined with others equally concerned for their human rights in a now unlawful land ruled by foreign governments residing here in Australia and unlawful states passing unlawful legislation, statutes, regulations, ad nauseam. I feel a bit like Martin Luther must have felt when he stood before an imposing council (called the Diet of Worms – of all unlikely descriptions) in 1521 when he took his historic stand against the Holy Roman Church and fired up the Protestant Reformation. His famous words still ring true for me – ‘Here I stand. I can do no other’. I am now releasing for sale the original 22 sites in the 3 precinct system and most likely after the lawful air clears and new buyers have provided their input in this new community, I will release another 11 scattered sites at a later date. If so, the current average price ($80,000) of sites from 5,000 sq m (1.25 acres) to 20,000 sq m (5 acres) will be proportionally reduced – for example around $55,000. Vendor Finance is available for those who do not have all the monies and if buyers don’t have any deposit then they can rent sites until the 10% deposit is accumulated. There will be a low rate of interest to get buyers through the first couple of years while house building and then it will gradually increase to offset the low rate. The whole approach is affordability at the right time. A significant percentage of the price covers anticipated taxes to the ATO passed on by me to you. GST, stamp duties, council fees, registration fees, etc add a further significant amount to the cost of the site. Some or all of these may be removed as the issues of citizenship in the Free State of Australia are explored. Please pass on this news to your networks There is the caveat (warning) that this project does not have the consent of the council, court or state in NSW. Weigh this up with the Common Law rights of property ownership in FEE SIMPLE, the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 (UK), the Magna Carta of 1215, the Bill of Rights of 1689, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Charter of the United Nations and numerous other relevant bodies of Law available for our guidance and protection. Consider becoming a citizen of the Free State of Australia - then the state and federal legal process (unlawful) will have no real power over you. There can be no doubt that there is an imaginary force that has been held over all of all our lives and it feels real but only works with our consent. Let’s talk a lot about this before you jump in. I have spent 6 months researching this new approach and I have been preparing for this ALL my life – without actually realizing this until yesterday. As part of this new paradigm, I am signing off as jonathan, with a small ‘j’. There are reasons for this and we can talk about them too as you engage in this move towards civil and political freedoms which are guaranteed by UN Conventions and much more. With integrity, as always. jonathan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jvella [mailto:jvella@dodo.com.au] Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 11:25 AM To: <a href="mailto:jonathan4452@bigpond.com">jonathan4452@bigpond.com</a> Subject: Free State Correspondence jonathan, letter to the Shoalhaven City Council from the FSA. This should give you an understanding of the FREE STATE, and the process being taken to assist with your reply to the court. You should advise the court that the matter is listed before the Common Law Court of the FSA to be held in March 2012. I will now list the matter, you would need to provide some detail eg...your full name - the name (Company?) address, and nature of the case asap. You can also advise the court that Her Most Excellent Majesty, Queen Eliz the Second.... was notified of the establishment of the FSA including the Gov-General, all State Governors, the Premiers, the Chief Ministers of the Territories and the UN, and that the Council will be soon notified. I will provide you with copies of documents to verify the above. You will receive a citizenship application to complete and forward to the address at the letter head. Speak soon john dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/24#post-3594 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:30:47 +0000 dowell 3594@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ 4th/11/2011 Hi all interested in this ongoing idiocy with Kyogle council and now with the land and environment court. I spent 13 hours travelling on the train to Sydney (and now going back) for a 2 hour hearing of my application for the court’s leave to amend my proposal for 22 homes in 3 precincts to 16 homes in 2 precincts following adverse comments from bushfire experts and the court about the problems of fire safety in the 3rd precinct with 11 dwelling sites in a forested setting. It was hailed by all as a great improvement to the proposal. The thing is, council’s barrister argued that this change would be a new development proposal and as such the court could not agree to my application for an amendment. The upside of this is that I don’t get ordered to pay council’s costs if leave for an amendment was approved by the court. I have the choice to proceed to a reconvened hearing on the 22 site 3 precinct system. The thing about this is that the Rural Fire Service did not sign off on this design before or during the site visit of the court and that is what prompted me to seek the court’s leave for an amendment. I also have the choice to discontinue my appeal, with a real risk of council’s costs thrown away being awarded against me. This is mitigated by the practice that this court does not award costs against parties very often. If I opt for discontinuance, I have to start the whole process again. This involves paying the council a fee to submit the new development application – last time it was $1100. I face the prospect of the council stonewalling me again but at least I will be able to use most parts of my (4 current) experts’ reports which (around 30 of them by now) have cost me over $130,000. I am in debt for about $80,000 of this to my experts and around $50,000 to 4 credit cards. My new application could be for 16 dwellings in 2 precincts – exactly what I argued for today but was denied by the court. It is highly likely as a new application that this will be approved but it will take more dollars and lots more time (4-5 months? – as if) to go down the legal procedures road to get there. I also have a choice to explore my Property Rights under Fee Simple which, it is claimed by a bush lawyer system here in Oz, is unassailable by statute or contract law – the laws, it is claimed, that I am using in vain to get permission to do what I propose on my own land. Another more extreme choice is to secede from Oz and to form a micronation or a sovereign state within the landmass known as Australia (Oz for my foreign readers). Then I exempt my property from all statute, contract and tort laws which currently apply. If I do this I can double the number of homes here and so half the start up costs to all buyers here. The pool of buyers would be vastly reduced to other anarchists like I would become if I take this option. It is looking pretty good to me right now. It is a BIG step though. Lots more on this to come. But I have to let the court know by Monday 11.20 am AEST (summer time East Coast – Sydney time). Writing this to you all has helped clarify some of the issues. I am planning to spend the weekend researching these options. Any comments, support, information of a lawful kind and loans to help pay my debts would be excellent. For more info, please write ban Ck to this email address or ring - for overseas callers +612 66 333 223, for interstate callers 0266 333 223 and for NSW callers 66 333 223. Thanks for your interest and support in this challenging process. I sense that I am being propelled into a social justice revolution for which I feel eminently ready. May we all prosper. Jonathan. dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/24#post-3593 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:29:43 +0000 dowell 3593@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ 16th/10/2011 Hi John. Helpful words (see below this email). I am still giving lots of thought to these Common/Sovereignty/Constitutional Law matters and about whether to secede from the Commonwealth of Australia and therefore to come under no Oz Corporate jurisdiction or simply to rely on Common Law to set aside Corporate/Contract/Statute Law under which we are currently governed by our uninformed consent. Remarkable things happened with the Land and Environment Court on Wednesday. The property visit started at 9.30 am with the Commissioner and 15 others in a group of cars. We moved around from the front gate to the end of the development areas in cars and on foot until around 12 45 pm. There were about 6 objectors who had written (4) submissions waiting to have their say to the Commissioner. This was arranged and expected. Then we broke for lunch at around 1.15 pm and met at the Casino Court House at 2.30. Many questions were asked and comments were made as we stopped at various key development sites throughout the property. The most problematic part of this development proposal for the Rural Fire Service is the distance of the 3rd precinct of 11 dwellings at around 2 kms from the public road. Concern for the safety of residents and firefighting personnel during a forced evacuation in a fire emergency is the main issue. I anticipated this and offered to remove this entire precinct and re-locate half of the dwellings to a safer, expanded precinct 2 and reduce the dwellings to 16 from 22. Better to get 16 than none. This represents a 30% shift in both the numbers of sites and the financial structure as well. From the start the Commissioner wanted to get on with hearing from the 7 bushfire experts (my 2 and Council’s 5) but there was an urgent matter which she tried to avoid that required her judgment. I had just spent $60,000 on 4 experts’ additional reports in response to Council’s unrelenting demand for more information since October last year. There is a long and complicated story to this but suffice to read that Council’s Barrister and Solicitor told the Court that my experts’ final reports (after about 15 earlier ones) severely prejudiced their case against my proposed development. DER. YOU THINK?? Of course they did!!! The Council had already told its experts not to consider this additional material in their joint experts’ reports (mine and theirs) designed to assist the court. I told the court that justice would not be done if this additional material was not considered. In spite of this, the Commissioner agreed to disallow this material and invited me to discontinue my appeal along with all the consequences of complying with this unexpected suggestion. I would have to pay Council’s considerable legal costs. I told her several times calmly and firmly I would not discontinue but rather that I sought an adjournment for me to formally seek the court’s leave to consider these additional reports or at least so that I could get legal advice on this issue. Another long drama followed with 2 adjournments of 5 minutes and continual reluctance by the court to allow my materials or an adjournment for them to be considered. Finally after to-ing and fro-ing this issue for about an hour, the Commissioner, having rung Sydney twice for legal advice on this, relented and granted me the adjournment I sought. More technical details about court protocols are passed over here. If the court allows my additional experts’ reports there should be another Hearing date set to complete this torrid affair with an idiot council legal tem in about a month. Stay tuned to this channel. Success is the only option. With integrity. Jonathan. POST SCRIPT – After the hearing was adjourned, the 7 fire experts, following intense discussions for 1.5 hours on the outside steps of the Court House, all agreed that they would favourably consider the amended plan with 16 dwellings in 2 precincts. WOW – that’s a complete turn around for Council’s 5 experts. On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM, John Carter <johngc@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Jonathan. More stuff for your fight against Council. Every time they force you to get a consultant to advise on information they want for your DA, send them this schedule of fees before you carry out the work. If they don't agree to the charges, then you don't have to do the work. It is all about contract law. No agreement, no contract, no work. Also I think you have a court hearing in Lismore tomorrow (Thursday) Where is it and when, as I have to go to Lismore tomorrow but i think it is in the afternoon. Regards, John dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/24#post-3592 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:27:30 +0000 dowell 3592@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Recieved 30th/9/2011 Please find the News Release in the attachment. I ask that a journalist, reporter, film producer or anyone else follows this matter from this point forward in order to chronicle all events for the next few weeks for the purpose of making a documentary on how an Age Pensioner has taken on a vexatious Council which is spending $1,000,000 of ratepayers’ monies, including mine, to try to prevent an affordable housing development in Kyogle Shire. This kind of legislative abuse of procedure has got to stop being perpetrated on the people of this State by a corporation that is not even recognized in the Australian Constitution. With integrity. Jonathan. dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/24#post-3591 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:25:49 +0000 dowell 3591@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Please cc to all Councillors. From past experiences this will probably change nothing there but I am writing this for a legal record in advance of bringing formal proceedings in relevant Courts relating to this Council’s vexatious behaviours towards my DA 11/39 and the unacceptable behaviours of Hession, Hutchings and Bevan in this and other related matters in my Appeal 11/10008 in the Land and Environment Court.. I first attempted to submit my Development Application (DA) on 16/12/2009 and Hutchings wouldn’t accept it. The current DA was submitted on 12/10/2010 and was so ineptly managed that it triggered a deemed refusal and thus the Class 1 Appeal in the Land and Environment Court. There is a raft of mistakes, inaccurate information and incorrect assessments by Hutchings and now Hession in the DA and in the Appeal. Along the way, Hession issued me with a Notice To Take Clean Up Action following routine agricultural maintenance on access roads here. There was no legal substance to this Notice and I have refused to pay the $444 costs of its issuance and any fines (up to $60,000) purporting to be attached thereto. More than 2 months after I applied for a Temporary Occupation Permit from Council and paid the $365 fee and asked for a waiver of the $500 bond, since I am an Age Pensioner, I received an unsupportable Notice of Refusal based on 4 untenable pretexts. Then Hession has the hide to send me a Notice of Inspection relating to his Notice of Refusal of a Temporary Occupation Permit on one working day’s notice and he arrives with his Health and Building inspector and a police woman in tow more 3 hours after his Notice had indicated. In the same week he came with a so-called Compliance Officer without prior written notice and without a legal mandate to take videos of my property without my permission. I have confirmed that this was a trespass and Hession aided and abetted it, so I am bringing civil charges against both parties for their harassment in this matter. Finally, Hession and I will go head to head on October 12th and 13th in the Casino Court House in the Hearing of my Appeal which begins on my invaded property at 9.30 AM on Wednesday week. There is still the matter of the trespass involving Hession and Bevan to which I am bringing charges on them both. I am writing this to encourage people to stand up for their rights against bullying bureaucrats. Please contact me if you need support if this is happening to you. The Attorney General has advised that Councils are not recognized in the Australian Constitution and have no lawful mandate to do what they are inflicting upon most of us and don’t have the power to collect rates and fees either – in spite of their bluster in citing statutes to the contrary. I am eagerly researching how to apply this fact and have already decided not to pay fees or rates or fines to this or any council any more. With integrity. Jonathan. BCC to 30 of 90 on my mailing list. dowell on "Zeitgeist Community? 200 acres, 22 shares available now Far nth NSW" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/zeitgeist-community-200-acres-22-shares-available-now-far-nth-nsw/page/24#post-3590 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:22:44 +0000 dowell 3590@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Hi to all, sorry for the delays in passing on info, the Eden Ck project has taken on a new direction, the court process to get council approval has been exhausted. jonathan has decided to opt out of the approval process and set up a micronation at Eden Ck. I will now forward all news of this new direction as it evolves. Recieved on the 19th sept 2011 This email is sent to 85 interested people on my mailing list in order to keep you informed on progress in this project. Thanks for that mobile number correction, John. Thanks also for the excellent materials you have sent in various emails to further inform me of my property rights and how to exercise them properly in this situation. I plan to blockade the entrance to my property by assembling 3 or more cars across it, each with 1 of 3 different trespass notices, including the Lock The Gate yellow triangle on them and stringing a heavy rope right across as well for good measure since there is no gate as such to shut here at present. I am taking my camera and several witnesses to observe what Council or anyone else with Council on this occasion tries to do, if they are stupid enough to turn up on the strength of the Notification to Inspect I received last Friday. I plan to release pictures of this blockade to the local press and will invite TV and radio crews to come here, see for themselves and interview my prospective buyers and I on this and other issues of Council’s reprehensible behaviour in relation to this development proposal for affordable housing on low cost land. The indignant Justice Giant in me has awakened and is about to wreak havoc on the 3 levels of government here in Australia which support the vexatious robbery of more than $1,000,000 in stamp duties, fees, GST and taxes I currently have to pass on to 22 potential low income buyers here. That’s about $50,000 per low income household just to get started in this new Rural Landsharing Community. It is outrageous and unconscionable and I plan to opt out of the systems that force this upon me to pass on to those who come to buy here. An average price of $80,000 for a 4 to 5 acres house site lot plus a further 100 acres of Common Land will end up costing buyers $102,000 because of duties, fees, taxes and the costs forced on me by Council’s vexatious behaviour in forcing me to Appeal to the Land and Environment Court. Strip away these and the cost is down to $52,000 immediately. A further estimated $1,000,000 has been lost from the Local Government Area’s Budget Allocations because of the obstructive behaviour of the Planning Department, the Mayor and some other Councillors. As a ratepayer and a fees payer, I am ceasing forthwith to pay anything towards this Council until I see the recovery of these wasted monies and responsible time and motion practices here. In the business as usual approach, this development would contribute around $220,000 in fees and levies for 22 homes to be constructed here. None of that will be released because that is about what it has cost me in monies and time terms to follow the legal path to attempt to gain consent here. There are damages too that are in six figure amounts. Then there could be exemplary damages awarded against individuals in this Council. I am turning their game back on them and if they have any semblance of sense left, they should be fearful – very fearful. I will keep you informed. With integrity, Jonathan. wildwabbit on "Watched the documentaries, what next..?" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/watched-the-documentaries-what-next#post-3589 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:53:37 +0000 wildwabbit 3589@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ It is almost ironic, you generally have to have a good deal of "money" in order to set up a system that allows you to escape it. What next? Quetzacoatl, This site (forum) has been very quiet lately, but there are usually a lot of good idea's and information floating around on here. Ask questions, post idea's that what the forum is for. I have met up with a few people on here to exchange idea's and skills, and plan on visiting a few others over the festive season. There are a few groups planning communities and awareness projects. You might find something you wish to be a part of, or contribute information and advice, sharing knowledge is of great value. I am curious as to your occupation, I work in a state of irony, I am a carpenter/heavy construction worker, and love building, the bigger and more ambitious the structure the better, however I loathe this at the same time as I generally see what I'm building as a waste of resources and uninspiring needless purposeless concrete masses. The better world right in front of us, I think people are becoming increasingly aware, just look at the "occupy protests" I think a lot of people are reaching a point where they realize that the system is deliberately enslaving them, through no fault of there own. I could rant on forever, but for now I would suggest contribute in the forum as much as you like. Quetzalcoatl on "Watched the documentaries, what next..?" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/watched-the-documentaries-what-next#post-3588 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 03:31:22 +0000 Quetzalcoatl 3588@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ How does one start to change a life that is intricately woven up in a monetary system..? Having lived the life of a nomad or travelling " hippy" for want of a better word, for many years in the past, employing as many anti system tactics and manouvres one can muster, what does one do when they have had their minds rebooted by Zietgiest, as they have found themselves currently absorbed back into a monetary system, working full time, albiet in a position that is very enjoyable and is also my hobby..? Why do I feel like the gap between realisation of a better world without a fractional reserve banking system in place and the current one where the work I do is enjoyable and the rewards..$ are acceptable..? As much as I loath the man and money in general, what are the first steps to take to engage the " better" world we all know is right there in front of us..? Dez on "CHARTER OF THE GLOBAL GREENS" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/charter-of-the-global-greens#post-3587 Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:37:16 +0000 Dez 3587@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ I think they have a lot of hidden agendas and as an anarchist I think they are just the same as any other lying mongrel politician! They used to be an environmental party, now they are just self serving and counter productive... Dez on "Lightning Ridge cheap land lease, $200 p/year" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/lightning-ridge-cheap-land-lease-200-pyear#post-3586 Sun, 13 Nov 2011 09:54:13 +0000 Dez 3586@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Hi, I have just organised a share on an intentional community and thought I would offer this to the community here since this was a topic... I have three 17 acre opal leases in qld that I would part with really cheap for people here if they were interested in starting something, I was going to set up something there and spend a bit of time fossicking to make some spare cash, it is boulder opal country (second most valuable next to black opal) and has plenty to be found on the leases, the nearest town has history, it was the birth place of qantas and waltzing matilda was first recited there. It has shops and is about 45 k's from town so is quite isolated but no one would bother you whatsoever. Hit me up via pm is you are interested. wildwabbit on "Queensland self sustaining Comunity" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/queensland-self-sustaining-comunity/page/10#post-3585 Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:57:46 +0000 wildwabbit 3585@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ @hombre, I had a good look at the hombreranch, you have some excellent idea's and points of view, I particularly like the post about dumb people and entertainment. There hasn't been much posting on here lately, I would suggest posting your idea's here to get some more responses. There were quite a few people throwing idea's and hypothetical around a year ago but this site seems to have gone into hibernation, needs a bit of stirring up again. hombre on "Queensland self sustaining Comunity" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/queensland-self-sustaining-comunity/page/10#post-3584 Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:53:30 +0000 hombre 3584@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ I have started a forum about the 'ideal commune'. It's just to collect and test ideas, really. For instance: did you know that at least 10g of quicklime can be made from one chicken eggshell? <a href="http://www.hombreranch.com/commune/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.hombreranch.com/commune/index.php</a> sparkie45 on "Queensland self sustaining Comunity" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/queensland-self-sustaining-comunity/page/10#post-3582 Sun, 06 Nov 2011 00:49:45 +0000 sparkie45 3582@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Hi sparkie45 here again i do have a copy of the lightning ridge handbook here the contents include geology, mine planning, surveying, laws affecting mineral claim, how to register a claim and reference guides contact dept of minereal resourses lot 60 Moralla street, Lightining Ridge NSW ph (068)290678 fax (068)290825 not checked these numbers may have changed by now!= eris on "Queensland self sustaining Comunity" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/queensland-self-sustaining-comunity/page/10#post-3580 Fri, 04 Nov 2011 03:04:16 +0000 eris 3580@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ We are looking at tenterfield at the moment and developing a code for living, based on the book walden two by BF Skinner. The core group talk weekly, usually on wednesdays. We are developing an information pack but some older info can be found at: <a href="http://www.chapters.zeitgeistaustralia.org/rbe/" rel="nofollow">http://www.chapters.zeitgeistaustralia.org/rbe/</a> current skills we will need include: any kind of AGRICULTURAL skills including permaculture, Apiarist (bees), Farmer, Horticulturist any kind of ENGINEERING inc. mechanical/electrical/civil/environmental/geological engineering, any kind of HEALTH skills inc. Biologist, Microbiologist, Dentist, Doctor, Nurse, Nutritionist, Physiotherapist, Psychologist, Surgeon, Veterinarian. any kind of TRADE inc. plumbing/construction/electrical/telecom/I.T./chef/landscaping/welder any area of SCIENCE including environmental/research/chemistry/biology/psychology/physics/I.T. Architecture, food production, teaching, logistics, transport or earthmoving, fire-fighting, town planning, project management, design. hope this offers answers, eris. sparkie45 on "Lightning Ridge cheap land lease, $200 p/year" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/lightning-ridge-cheap-land-lease-200-pyear#post-3579 Wed, 02 Nov 2011 20:38:26 +0000 sparkie45 3579@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Sparkie 45 here sure need more people as yourself to meet up. am planning on a visit to the Zeitgeist saturday in brisbane just got to confirm date as two different dates are on this web page should get a emasil today i reckon or i call the mobile tommorow. p.s am working on a tesla turbine have platters and planetary gear bits but no work shop facilities. using the principals of reflected light and a parabola on top of three Amphorae pots duality of purpose is achieved and the potentials for both solar energy and storage of usable water for growth. osmosis happens when using terracotta pots meaning, moisture passes through the pot placed in open barren ground into triangular formation causes top soils and seeds to accumulate at the base of pots shade now retains moisture at base of pots and growth begins where there was none. so i believe the opal clay which is abundant can be used to create the Amphorae pots at low cost and mylar mirror array & parabola at center steam pwer easily achievable from focal point so i believe anyways.esecially as its at the edge of the desert an vast clay pans occasional salt bush as far as the eye can see.and behind you thick natual bush the zone of uncertainty! like a magnet force on inert iron filings nothing missing except capacity for potable water needed to create growth conditions. just a thought ! nagging at my consciousness!! wildwabbit on "Lightning Ridge cheap land lease, $200 p/year" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/lightning-ridge-cheap-land-lease-200-pyear#post-3578 Wed, 02 Nov 2011 10:01:37 +0000 wildwabbit 3578@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Hey sparkie45, I'm up in Brisbane, I've been messing around with wind turbines the last 12months but have been looking at many other cheap/diy energy idea's, stirling engines, pelton turbines, parabolic mirrors, fresnel lens, thermo syphons, thermo ducting, etc, too many idea's never enough time or budget. I'm usually pretty time poor, but can spare the odd Sunday if your up for a visit. I've got a half decent workshop, plenty of Fisher and Paykel washing machine parts and motors and have a growing collection of treadmill motors to be used as generators for various projects. I have been keeping an eye out for cheap/free discarded satellite dishes (no luck yet)that I was planning to cover with tiny mirror tiles as I have seen this done on youtube quite successfully. Anyway I'll send you an email sometime in the next few days, look forward to catching up sometime, would be great to have someone to exchange idea's and skills with. sparkie45 on "Lightning Ridge cheap land lease, $200 p/year" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/lightning-ridge-cheap-land-lease-200-pyear#post-3577 Wed, 02 Nov 2011 07:48:16 +0000 sparkie45 3577@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ Hey Sparkie45 here again true story about the ridge only thing they may require you to do a opal mining course so as to make it happen. you can go and see claims for sale that have mines on them already opal mining has been going on ther for around a hundred years. the mines around the ridge got me to thinking what could be done to sustain ones self at the Ridge as opal mining is too hit and miss and is deeply depressed market as opal too can now be created by man the only diff is the weight is not the same but quality good as best black opal which is only found at the ridge. Getting back to my idea the opal clay is tumbled to extract the opal dam is filled with clay sediment that could be fired to make large Amphorae pots, Egyptian style, placed into triangular formation, filled with bore water causing temperature growth tranference. Am also thinking that solar collector dish ontop to generate steam power distilling bore water for crops placed right around the artesian basin everything is at the ridge now place to live and meaningfull work as the egyptians used to do or with help of there slaves. when you see that the Zone of uncertainty for plants and animals is so abrubt it would be good place to start . would love to find like minded people to help with my solar experiments am tring to make a parabola now at home on the gold coast and i really need an engineer for my tesla turbine washing machine bearing conversion. and it's whre i'm up to now txt me on 0413442639or email <a href="mailto:mellison41@yahoo.com">mellison41@yahoo.com</a> ta mark spark wildwabbit on "Lightning Ridge cheap land lease, $200 p/year" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/lightning-ridge-cheap-land-lease-200-pyear#post-3576 Tue, 01 Nov 2011 11:07:22 +0000 wildwabbit 3576@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ <a href="http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/minerals/lightning-ridge/mineral-claims/mineral-claim-applications" rel="nofollow">http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/minerals/lightning-ridge/mineral-claims/mineral-claim-applications</a> I found this information but haven't gone through it yet, pretty sure its all here somewhere. Will post again when I have time to read it all properly. wildwabbit on "Lightning Ridge cheap land lease, $200 p/year" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/lightning-ridge-cheap-land-lease-200-pyear#post-3575 Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:56:17 +0000 wildwabbit 3575@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ I read this post the other day and thought it deserved its own thread so I've re-posted it. I had quick search around on the internet and it is quite an amazing opportunity, if I get time I'll try and find out what the lease conditions and terms are. Thanks sparkie45, if you have a bit more knowledge or know the ins and outs of the lease terms would be great if you elaborate. Re: Queensland self sustaining Community sparkie45 offline Member Posted 1 day ago # Report original post by sparkie45 hi ya all new here just thought i,d mention at lighting ridge a 50x50 mtr block can be leased from mines dept for around 200 bucks per year and thousands of people live in self sustainable humppys,vans, buses, shacks and proper dwellings go there and see for yourself just don't fall down a opal mine shaft lol sparkie45 on "Queensland self sustaining Comunity" http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/topic/queensland-self-sustaining-comunity/page/10#post-3573 Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:18:36 +0000 sparkie45 3573@http://www.zeitgeistaustralia.org/forum/ hi ya all new here just thought i,d mention at lighting ridge a 50x50 mtr block can be leased from mines dept for around 200 bucks per year and thousands of people live in self sustainable humppys,vans, buses, shacks and proper dwellings go there and see for yourself just don't fall down a opal mine shaft lol