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  • Posted by _theone 2 years ago. There are 23 posts. The latest reply is from David Zwolski.
  1. _theone

    Hi Everyone, Brad here. This is an essay on the movement, that was given to me by a good friend, who is trying to get to the depths of the movement, and the venus project. So I would like you all to have a read and please respond, and address the points within this essay.

    'Zeitgeist : Addendum' is an activist movie by Peter Joseph. Although this movie brings to light the problems with our current monetary system and how it is leading to poverty, hunger, debt, deprivation ,crime , ignorance, stress, fear and inequity. The solution provided to this problem conveys some very disturbing thoughts and concepts on introducing a resource based global economy through something called the Venus project. The Venus project is expected to act in place of our current monetary system and this inturn will lead to maximise the quality life for all rather than profits. Hopefully this movie will have a positive impact and cause people to come up with more realistic solutions to resolve this issue.

    Venus Project

    The Venus Project is all about ,using our technology and resources for the maximum benefit of people, planet , seeking out new ways of thinking, living and redesigning our culture. It attempts to provide equal fulfilment for the entire human population.

    A Resource-Based Economy, according to the movie and the Venus project is the key to this attaining goal. It is assumed that technology will make it possible to overcome scarce resources by applying renewable sources of energy, computerizing and automating manufacturing and inventory, designing safe energy-efficient cities and advanced transportation systems, providing universal health care and more relevant education, intelligent management of resources,etc.

    This is in turn supposed to result in the elimination of war, poverty, hunger, deprivation, crime, ignorance, stress, fear, and inequity and lots more.

    I find that the Venus project is a flaw because it implies that there is no human nature and that it has the ability to control human greed. It has very similar ideas as communism such as equally sharing wealth, etc and it may fail for the same reason communism failed. On paper communism is a flawless plan. It is a great system in practice, well, we all know the result. It attempts to eliminate human nature and create people with out greed. The Venus project has similar values to a left winged government. It is trying to build a new society on theory and dreams and has absolutely nothing to do with reality. It is preposterous.

    Greed is not something that humans have had just because of our current social existence but it is even applicable biologically. Billions of years ago, single celled organisms (prokaryotes) were the first form life on earth. These single celled organisms were greedy to ensure their own safety and survival and their ability to reproduce. And hence over the years ,they have evolved into multi cellular (eukaryotes) organism which continually mutate to ensure their survival. Being multi cellular organisms has increased their chances of survival, but they continue to mutate because they are greedy to win the battle known as the survival of the fittest. Greed can only be controlled ,never eliminated.

    It also sound as though the main idea in this project is that we can achieve sustainability through technology. If history has taught us anything, it is the opposite of that. Technology is merely and extension of mankind and our will over humanity. Machines have no emotions. They simply work off a logic equation that us humans have derived. The movie does not promote democracy but control by machines. Even if machines are the only things having the ability to provide humans with equality and peace, who gets to write the logic equation that will be in control of the human species? Does this mean that people in charge of the machines are in power? What if, there happens to arise a technological glitch? Would you rather let machines control you?

    Resource based economy

    A Resource-Based Economy is a system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants.

    The premise upon which this system is based is that the Earth is abundant with plentiful resources. It suggests that our practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter productive to our survival. If abundance is defined as something that is available in large quantities and available to all, It can be understood such a way by this quote: “Although air and water are valuable, in abundance they cannot be sold.” Our natural resources are limited on Earth. we have to make choices and decide upon different alternatives. The limitations we have mean that the resources are scarce. The resource based economy does not eliminate scarcity.

    The main issue with the resource based economy is the fact that there is no economy at all. Without a mean for valuation, it is impossible to have a rational basis for selection and decision making. Somehow or other a decision has to be made on what is to be produce, in what amount , where, when and by whom. But there is no objective yardstick available that enables us to satisfy individuals different and variant needs and desires.

    For example :
    Lets say there is a picture of building a new transportation system. In a monetary economic system we will be able to answer questions such as, should it be built at all, what are the benefits and what are the consequences and so on. We will have the ability rationalise and state that the new transportation system will either be more cost effective for the transportation of certain goods and if we are benefiting out this or if it is not in the favour of the society or economy and hence it should not be built. This can only be calculated using money. Its is not an option to attain the desired end, merely by counter balancing the various physical expenses and savings such as labour, iron, Coal, building materials, machines,etc. These factors cannot be calculated as they are not in a common unit. I agree the current monetary system has its serious defects but there is nothing better to replace it . Certainly not the Venus project.We should instead be thinking of correcting the moetary system.

    Let alone the rational decision making process. What about these questions?

    who controls the resources and makes the decisions and based on what criteria?
    who allocates the work needed?
    who is behind the law and order, and their enforcement?
    By who’s standards, beliefs and values does the society operates?

    All economic theories are irrelevant anyway because economic theory doesn’t actually exist in reality because it assumes people are rational, which they aren’t.

    ps: Please feel free to constructively critisize.

  2. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Oh the old 'a friend gave it to me'. Well first off you have got it all wrong my friend.

    This is what I got from only the first couple of paragraphs...

    I do not agree that it's 'an activist' movie. It is a download, if you like, of information and qualifying truths not generally known nor readily available to the public. Most have a small glimpse inside themselves that things are not always what they seem, this movie qualifies that and back's it up with hard hitting informative facts.

    The Venus Project is NOT the solution. A Resource Based Global 'Community' is the solution. Solution to what? The monetary system we currently live under. Disturbing is the facts the movie reveals about the current world we live in or more to the point, under.

    The VP is words and ideas put into action, again qualifying the ideals raised within the movie. Proving it is not just a bunch of horse shit, but can and will be a completely functioning city run entirely on the basis on a 'Resource Based Community'. NOT as you put it a resource based economy. There is no monetary system here therefore no economics required.

    The VP is all about throwing away the old customs and belief sets through the use of technology for the greater good of humanity as a Global community instead of the pockets of the few. By way of utilising the Earths resources in such a way as to not destroy the planet or each other.

    One of the main factors of the movie and I think a point you have missed entirely is that the Earth is abundant with enough resources to feed and house every human being alive today, right NOW. Our current profiteering 'powers that be' know this already but don't want you to know it. This way they have CONTROL of the resources and can DICTATE who gets what, when and where. And who does not.

    I suggest watching the movie again, also watch the "where are we going and where are we now" DVD's

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Player

    down the bottom you can find them av for dl in DVD format.

    Just trying to help, nothing worse than being misinformed.

    Let's do this
  3. User has not uploaded an avatar

    lol I was trying to give you the link hehe try this one http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ then scroll down and click on this bit "1.5 Hour Movement Orientation Now Online"

    QUOTE from http://www.thevenusproject.com/

    The Venus Project presents a bold, new direction for humanity that entails nothing less than the total redesign of our culture. There are many people today who are concerned with the serious problems that face our modern society: unemployment, violent crime, replacement of humans by technology, over-population and a decline in the Earth's ecosystems.

    As you will see, The Venus Project is dedicated to confronting all of these problems by actively engaging in the research, development, and application of workable solutions. Through the use of innovative approaches to social awareness, educational incentives, and the consistent application of the best that science and technology can offer directly to the social system, The Venus Project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which human beings, technology, and nature will be able to coexist in a long-term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium.

    hope this helps

  4. craftymethod

    I have a few responses

    1)Greed as a base line survival tactic... - Guarantee survival. This will bring many many idealogical questions, but if you dont have to worry about dying, why would you need to be greedy? I realise I side stepped and placed a glimpse into the future but what the hell!

    2) Communism. As far as I am aware, communism existed with a single party political system at its core. At the time there were other minor parties but I believe that these single party systems were privvy to too much power and the private (and public?) sector(s) had to break its chains so to speak. How about considering an unlimited party system?
    Please see "Us Now" on youtube.

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Player

    Very interesting points, i'll try researching more

    Join us on Facebook: (Zeitgeist Movement Australia)
    http://www.facebook.com/TZMAU
  5. User has not uploaded an avatar

    NO that is more bs. We DO NOT want a different version of the current system in ANY format.

    This sounds like deflection, what they are saying is that apparently we can all just log on and 'vote' for who we want, 'debate' what we want and some "politician" will apparently make it happen. That is nothing more than a complete rehash of the current X in the Box system we have today. This one just has more emphasis on the 'illusion of control'. When in reality is just nothing more the EXACTLY what we have now. I liken it to putting a filter on a cigarette...

    VP = Complete and utter shedding of what is now. No Voting because No politicians. It is a collective of ideas which are then analysed and processed to make 100% informed decisions about what to do for the good of all.

    Stuff the old system, that's the big point. It only serves the so called elite.

    But how do I get a say in the final decision you ask? What if I like my idea better you ask?

    These and many others are the questions that will ponder this type of society until everyone realises that although we are all individuals we belong to the same collective, the human race.

    Therefore even though you idea or concept may seem like gold to you or me or even a large group, if when processed, it is decided that it would not server the greater good, then we all have to live with it. And no it's not communism to be that way.

    All for one and ONE FOR ALL.

    Competition for who came up the best idea is nothing more than what we have now, break the shackles. Be happy you were able to have a say and an input in the final decision. Without this input, to be told, that is Communism. Where decisions are made for you and me in the name of the state.

    nty.

  6. craftymethod

    All I know is we should keep an open mind and give new ideas a chance. A wide government system as described above could easily be different from today as decisions are discussed by central governments in near private parliaments. Open those decisions up to those who are educated to make a decision, even considering a popular vote may be dangerous... can only be a good thing as you are widening the decision making process.

    Would politicians really be then given the role of carrying out those decisions? I think perhaps once they have been made the political process would near be complete.

    How the political system works today, you would have to say will not be a carbon copy of something that will exist in 100 years. What we need to do is identify how things might change and try not to hinder positive change or sabotage it.

    It will all be very fascinating anyway

  7. bividium

    My critiques here are to particular comments within the essay and not on the writings as a whole. While the author seems to have a negative outlook on the possibility in living within a social structure such as the Venus Project, he/she have directly become apart of it already, for as Jacques Fresco says, the VP is not a perfect system, but a platform that is able to accept and entertain a multitude of ideas with the aim at raising the quality of life for all beings equally.

    Whether you are offensive to the idea of the VP or defensive, forums of discussion become an integral part of formulating appropriate structures and systems to fit all fairly. So in that light, you must commend the author for intellectually, they have engaged within this lengthy process of assessing our current civilization and ways of life.

    QUOTE:
    "I find that the Venus Project is a flaw because it implies that there is no human nature and that it has the ability to control human greed."

    I disagree that the VP is a 'flaw'. I also don't believe, in my interpretation, that it implies there is no human nature but I do believe the VP could successfully 'control' or hinder human greed.
    Our nature as beings is directly affected by our environment. This is evident firstly in the animal kingdom and one may only need to ponder their own history and lives to understand the reality of this. As a student studying to one day be an Architect, I am already aware that our physical environment affects our actions and nature. A truly successful piece of architecture can influence ones emotion and state of mind through the manipulation of form, light and function. The same could be said of our society with the architects of our social environment in fields of Politics and Economics. Laws are a 'higher power' in our developed environment that educates us in the nature of right and wrong (generally) while economics, being a seemingly rational system of trade, affects our nature of greed. Since money is the utmost essential tool in our society to eat, to be educated, medically treated and in general, just to live, it attains a priority level higher than just doing right or wrong.
    Most in the western world wish to be economically successful as to provide their children the very best opportunity in a world that lives and breaths on a monetary system. That drive to be successful or wealthy can alter our perception, and provides the ideal environment for greed to reign control. The VP takes economics and trade control tactics like scarcity out of the system, so our priority of being economically wealthy instantly becomes pointless.
    In a resource based community with no economical control deluding the people into the reality of the value of their money, an environment of citizens with resources available to live without fear of them being disposed to a candidate with more monetary wealth would curb the nature of greed. I do honestly believe it could bring humans to the realization that as a global community, we are one, and our brothers and sisters in Africa, India, China and across all lands have the same natural right and access to resources and to live not only in harmony with our environment, but with each other. Racial and religious profiling fragments our society and further stifles progress, but the biggest abuser of that crime is the monetary system.

    QUOTE:
    "without a mean for valuation, it is impossible to have a rational basis for selection and decision making"

    In light of my above comments, I'm sure you can tell that I do not believe valuation through an economic scale is rational, although, the authors' example of implementing a new transport system in today's society is only based on monetary factors leading to the final decision whether to carry out such a project, and this is because this is all we know and all we are taught in our universities and colleges, all playing their part in a monetary system. But surely, in a truly developed world, a more sustainable measure of valuation should come from factors such as environmental impact, social growth and positive impact and from the direct needs of the global community. Shouldn't the quality of life factor be more important than the profit margin or corporate account balance?

    From possibility to actuality
  8. maling

    Greed can only be controlled ,never eliminated.

    I completely agree. I am a firm believer that anything that anyone ever does is ultimately for their own benefit. A RBE won't change this.

    However, an RBE does control greed and it does provide incentive to produce. The motivator for production in a RBE is the progress of the entire human race. A person's greed for a better life, better technology, better whatever is still controlled, because by contributing to society, they are fulfilling their pursuit of greed.

    And yes, I agree that the incentive to produce in an RBE (progression of, and contribution to the human race) is inferior to the incentive to produce in a monetary system (wealth of yourself and your family). However, there's a far more important underlying change between these two.

    Problems that won't be solved in a monetary system because there's no profit in doing so (regardless of the ethics) - such as poverty, hunger and homelessness - will be solved in a RBE because it's the solution's value to society that generates incentive, not profit.

    With the solving of problems such as these, and the shift in incentives in a RBE, human's greed will be controlled, there will be incentive to work, and people will be working for the betterment of humanity rather than profit.

  9. craftymethod

    Seems hard for me to consider greed something that can be controlled?

    Instead of control, could we consider what it would take for people to be content? and not behave in a greedy manner?

  10. bividium

    Well greed is not really what we'd be controlling, or ever could. Greed is a byproduct of our environment, so to speak. So by altering the environment, and changing the structure of our society, it is possible, as a reaction for us to become less greedy.. We would become more content with the availability or less stressed access to resources and services such as healthcare and education. It also would see less of us in monotonous employment positions in industry, lowering stress levels on the whole no doubt.

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