any brave to address him ?
About this topic
- Posted by David Zwolski 2 years ago. There are 15 posts. The latest reply is from Talis.
-
-
- Jacque has been studying and thinking his ENTIRE life. He has a form of passion for developing the future as do we all. Never hate on someones lifework after you researched for 10 minutes.
1) - Time is never wasted researching something.
2) - Sure, social engineer's is a bit wishy washy, but developed change is driven by SOCIETY. Regardless of any leading input of ideas.
3) - What would this guy have thought about Sigmund Freud??? Dont we need these people with these ideas to develop the future?
4) Run for the hills. Sure... running from something is the best option. Not investigating it and exploring postive aspects.
5) Ok... LOL.... he read a few pages about a "resource based economy?" (he later states he only read about RBE for 30 seconds) and he "still doesnt get it?". News for him but WHAT THE FUCK do ants and the rest of the animal kingdom use? We are the only species that use currency of any form (might want to check this). We evolved these advanced systems, we can evolve more.
6) Take money out destroy government/Politics?? I doubt it. CHANGE government, CHANGE how we access resources, then money will change its meaning.
7) Trade and exchange will exist for a very long time. Sure, but thats not to say the way basic needs are met cannot be streamlined with more efficient, less prone to variables etc, systems. Isolated states managing and hording assests is where we are today, but a more centralised system would increase efficiency, reduce red tape etc.
Private Property. Here he says people wont own any property and that "people" will be making decisions for other people's "private property".well, In situations were this will apply... (these areas would be isolated) i dont think people will own "nothing". I think that everyone will own "everything". (probally in isolation at first)
9)"if your a thinking person your going to be disgusted". If your a thinking person you should never really get disgusted. Identify things you have problems with, and hold them up in the air. for however long it takes. Expect your reservations to be true eventually or expect them to be resolved. Shouldnt a thinking person try to get past initial reactions of emotion?
10) Existence of money... hmmm... i think its primarily a value of money issue... i dont know enough to respond but im sure the comments "hating money" and "money is evil" maybe isnt quite what we should be saying. Although surley money systems can be improved in what direction i dont know, and how the ideas of currency and trade and markets etc, what exists for them in the future is anyones guess. Support reform where reform is due, call that hating money sure, but money is a central issue in the world. It must change (again) sometime.
And these "scientists making the decisions".... I think it will be more like crowd sourced decisions through public political software platforms with "scientific" input. And the scientific input would surely only be reccomendations at best.
And regarding communism VS the Venus Project... I think the explanation he read out in this video probally lacks the complexity that the topic deserves. This is an ongoing topic that will not be solved easy and its an easy copout to just read one sentance and shoot it down.
The literal meaning of the word "sin" is "to miss the point". Things dont have to regard religious ideas... They can be any. Momentum exists and sure, we dont really understand a lot of things, and sure, things can seem similiar to things that existed in the past, but do we want to leave it there?
What were the good idea of all these old systems?
Playing a simple game of "connect the dots" can bring us to say great things about the VP, and it can work for peeople such as this shooting the ideas down. Maybe not all of the ideas as currently written but "momentum".
Bloody hell... 2 minutes to go... its 4:22 am, this is a bit hard.
11)Rich people. A rich person isnt going to kill another person just for a sandwhich put it that way. The impact of greed and ego fortification might be factors for bad behavior by the rich... im sure there are more. Survival and security on ones position in society? Coverups? embarrassment?
Hope you guys enjoyed my 4-5 am "drivel" lol
Was I brave enough David?
I guess the world needs people to poke holes in things. and for us to respond and create questions and wonder about solutions.
Fuck it, im going to bed
Join us on Facebook: (Zeitgeist Movement Australia)
http://www.facebook.com/TZMAU -
God....what a small minded man.
9)"if your a thinking person your going to be disgusted". If your a thinking person you should never really get disgusted. Identify things you have problems with, and hold them up in the air. for however long it takes. Expect your reservations to be true eventually or expect them to be resolved. Shouldnt a thinking person try to get past initial reactions of emotion?
I'm in total agreement here. I have to laugh at his description: 'a thinking person', let us say, an intellectual, one who is able to critically deconstruct and construct any realm of idea or concept, is not controlled or influenced by emotion, logic takes hold.Although, as a side note, I was disgusted watching this video...
What I first chuckled over was his reaction to Jacques self describing as a Social Engineer, oh and that we should either run or call the cops, or both - what are the cops going to do I might ask?
In my own opinion, I have no problem with Jacques self describing as a social engineer, politicians are social engineers, you could say even the police are social engineers as well, although, anyone and everyone are social engineers in their own dominion.Also, this vlogger kept refering to the audacity of TVP by saying 'if you have any knowledge of history at all' (he said this a couple of times but failed to refer to what part in history he was drawing from) as well as saying 'if you have any idea on philosophy'; well, philosophy is made up of many different realms of ideology, so I think that's an 'unthought out' comment to make. And history...well, if history tells us anything, its screaming at us that this current world we have created DOES NOT WORK.
Also, another point in which 'I was disgusted by..ahem' was how he claimed that TVP is essentially a communist system that does not wish you to own your own private property to do with it as you please. I'd like to remind him that in the current systems we have established over the globe, that no property owner has 100% freedom to do what they wish on it, there are loads of regulations and zoning restrictions and also geographical restrictions on properties, so that point which he, as a 'thinking person' probably thought was brilliant to make, but to me, it carries no weight.
At the end of the day, this is his opinion, but how can you generate a full understanding on the concept if you've only spent 30 seconds looking into it? On top of that, does anyone see as clearly as I do the conditioning in which he is a slave to?
From possibility to actuality -
Yeah he obviously saw some ideas that had a bit of a resemblance to those idea he had been taught were the devils work/bad for society etc., freaked out and didnt finish his research.
He didnt understand that the society would be managed by computers and science. Automated. He obviously hadnt read that far, or enough on it.
He didnt understand the idea that if we dont have to worry about survival, we wouldnt need to steal etc. Instead he made an irrelevant comment about how rich people still do bad things. Correct me if im wrong, but there is the risk that rich can lose their money is there not? Hostile takeovers, theft, corporate espionage, etc. Plus there are reasons people do what we do, and it isnt simply because money exists. Thats not the idea. The whole idea is that the reasons get CREATED in this system of money and the corruption that comes from it.
Now he is right, i believe, that money itself doesnt corrupt. It is the system of scarcity, of economy, that creates the CONDITIONS that get people desperate and fearful for themselves and their families.. well you know all this i hope. Its too big a discussion to go into here.
Anyway, he hasnt done his research to a satisfactory level (anywhere near it). Simple as that.
Btw, I havent joined the movement yet, im still doing my research, but even i can see just by reading the whole FAQ off the VP site that the project is worth looking into.
He needs to realise how he has been conditioned and open his mind a bit more.
-
Hey theagnostic....
I think everyone in the movement should still be researchers... but if we all stand up, think big and apply pressure, good things could happen.
-
Couldnt agree more. Still.. an open mind works both ways
-
This guy fustrates me, however you'll always get people who try to shoot it down without any evidence to support their theory.
Main focus at our level should just be "self sustainability for electricity, food and refined psychology" because with this knowledge and sharing it amongest people freely we will gain support for the cause, will prove to the general public that we don't talk crap, we are serious about change and will save people money....everyone wins.
Currently I'm working on my own square foot garden atm, if its sucessful and yeilds quite a lot with little effort, I'll be gladly sharing this knowledge to all.
Sorry was a little off topic but felt like adding that in
-
@Sipka
Let me know about your garden please man for sure. I've been working on one all spring and summer...so I'd be keen to see the results and process of yours -
Defiantly. Currently because I started late, my only focus is for this winter to find different methods of growing plants, which ones seem most effective, making my own compost and any additional things I need to consider before I start growing. So hopefully when winter passes I'll be totally ready to get into it :). My girlfriend will be planting fruit trees (she’s got a large backyard to work with that hasn’t been touched for 10 years) so it should be very interesting, I'll be sure to pass along any info that works well to anyone, also I'll hopefully take lots of photos to document it properly :).
-
It's very cynical and sarcastic, and he really talks down to someone who has subscribed to his
YouTube channel and thought he would be interested in the ideas and values of TVP. Which
if I was that subscriber I would be a bit offended by.I don't think any of the points he was trying to make to support his argument against the ideals
of TVP were well thought out or properly constructed, instead he seemed to just be making it
up as went and none of it sounded very clever although he seemed to think it did.He has also disabled comments on the video so that no one was able to challenge him on any
level about the claims he made, which I disagree with, and really I think reduces a persons
credibility in any debate when making such blanket rejections of another's proposed idea/s.I guess it's good to hold him up for all of us to see, as we will come across people like this
constantly who's arguments seem to make little sense and have shaky foundations at best. They
will be extremely frustrating, and no matter how much conclusive and well researched evidence
we throw there way, they will come back with another argument that deviates from the point and clings
to preconceived misconceptions that don't really apply or are not relevant. In short, you
tell them sky is blue, and they will find a way tell you that's not actually true and that
you are wrong to say so.It is important to research the other side, and see if there is some merit in any arguments
against what is being proposed. It's easy once, you fall in love with an idea to put the
blinkers on and just ignore all suggestions that other people might have suggestions as to why
it could in fact be a bad thing. However I don't think this person represents a clear thinking
individual who has any merit in his opposition to TVP. I would be interested to hear from such
a person who has legitimate concerns that are worth considering, and exploring, as to why either
the claims made in Zeitgeist are not 100% factual and/or why TVP is not the answer to some or
most of our problems. I haven't found any yet, but I haven't exactly been looking very hard
either.
Reply »
You must log in to post.